The critics have been most impressed with this, the latest episode in BBC2's eclectic, observational documentary series. Describing it as "chilling" and "alarming", the programme has also "got heart".
Most package-holiday tourists are seeking sun, sex or adventure, but the customers in Sharon Stolebarger's charge are looking for something rather different. Sharon is the tour rep on a special ten-day holiday for people who believe the Apocalypse is only a few years away. Her customers are off to Israel to take a last-chance look at the "valley of Armageddon" - before it's awash with the blood of unbelievers - and to be baptised in the very waters that Jesus once walked on. They even get the chance to spend a day helping out at an Israeli military base - the highlight of the holiday for many of the tourists.
As the bus winds its way through the Holy Land, the tourists talk about their vision of Doomsday and reveal troubled pasts that seem to have led some of them to take refuge in such extreme religious beliefs. But as soon as film-maker David Clews gets to know them better, they decide they want to save his endangered soul and threaten him with an eternity of suffering.
Have just read all the comments.Isn't it sad that some people have such a dislike for Christians? Why? Are we a threat to them? If we are so 'bonkers' why do they bother commenting at all. I have never found a Christian who believes the whole Word of God who has anything other than love for ALL men regardless of their views, After all, that's what Jesus taught.But that also means we pray for those who don't believe. There is more evidence that Jesus Christ lived, died and rose again than Julius Caesar lived and landed in this country a couple of miles away from where I live. I thank God that I have faith in Him and what He has done for me and all who will accept Him. I hope you can all find the same peace in your lives.
February 20th, 2008 - 10:43pmBarry said...
Hi Mark, Wow. What a predicament you put me in; I’m told in the Bible (that you seem to so despise) “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit” (Prov 26:4-5). A contradiction? NO, a simple statement of fact, that no matter if you do or don’t answer a fool, you are not going to win. So should I bother answering you? Or sign off here? Let’s give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you are not a fool, and are actually interested in a reasoned and rational discussion.
My point in mentioning Chuck Missler’s ‘CV’ was to underline that people far more intelligent than you or I, and extremely successful in business, chose to be on the trip (which the BBC did distort – imagine a documentary on medicine where not a single doctor was consulted, it wouldn’t happen would it?; we had at least 7 Bible teachers on the tour, and not one was given the opportunity to speak on the documentary).
One of the reasons I believe what I do, is because of the overwhelming evidence – evidence that you are either oblivious to, or living in denial of. Possibly the most foolish statement a person can make is to say that there is no God. Let me ask you, how many grains of sand on all the beaches in Hawaii? Do you know? How many hairs on the back of a fully grown Tibetan Yak? My point is, you do not know everything. Let’s therefore assume that you know a whopping 1% of all the knowledge in the universe. Is it possible that in the 99% of knowledge that you don’t have, that there could be proof of God’s existence? Unless you really are a fool (and off the record, I don’t think you are, and I actually enjoyed your post), you have to concede that, at best, you don’t know if there’s a God or not.
Now let me ask you another question: if I answered all of the questions you raise (only two of which are actually good questions – the rest are pretty silly and easily answered), would you then believe? Let’s say you throw back at me another 20 supposed contradictions, and I answer all of those, would you believe then? Bear in mind that the Bible has been relentlessly attacked for centuries, yet still stands firm (in other words, don’t kid yourself thinking that your gonna bring down Christianity – the brilliant mind of Voltaire tried that, after he died they used his house to print Bibles!)
Some final questions: Who will be the ruling world power in 500 years time? How will they subsequently be conquered? Who will follow them? Give me details of the life, attitude, sayings, specific events of an individual that won’t be born for another 483 years, and then detail a specific event that will occur on that very day. Struggling?
Then maybe you should take another look at the Bible – without the blind prejudice that someone else has convinced you is rational.
Alternatively, get back to me on the day you are going to die – often people seem more willing to talk then, for some reason. www.needgod.com
February 16th, 2008 - 7:34pmMark said...
Wow, the nutjobs have certainly come out in force on this thread haven't they. I know facts/reason/logic have no significance to these people but lets try a few shall we. I hope thay get chance to read them before they're put back in their nice comfy rooms with the soft walls.
James @ 9.25 on 7th Feb complained that only "damaged or deranged" Christians are ever used by the BBC. So I guess that includes "Songs of Praise" and "The Big Questions" every week on TV, along with "The Moral Maze" every week, and "Thought for the Day" every day (although featuring various religions) on the radio, does it James?
Beth @ 0.26 on 9th Feb quite correctly stated that whatever you believe, the truth is the truth. Unfortunately she doesn't seem to have any idea what the word means. Bland fact free assertions are not truth dear. Grow up.
James came back yet again @ 0.28 on 10th Feb, to cmplain this tiume that the programme was too short. See my earier reply to you about much airtime is already devoted to your fantasy. I'm certainly not afraid to hear what "Christians" habe to say (why do you insist on put inverted commas around it?), indeed when there's no good comedy on it can fill a few boring minutes.
Barry @ 0.53 on 10th Feb seemed to care about the CV of one of his co-whackos than anything else. However he then makes a very bold claim - "The Bible has a 100% track record on Prophecy. These are not ambiguous comments, but specific details recorded thousands of years in advance." Lets see now Barry, How many failed or innacurate, or just plain BS prophecies do you want me to quote from your big boys book of fairy tales. Well I've give you just a few to show your 100% claim to be the lie it is, but then leabe to find the rest yourself (hint, its teeming with them)
1. Lets start right at the begining in Genesis shall we. This is one where the prophecy wasn't even "fixed" to look true by the writers of the book. In Genesis 2:17 God told Adam that he shouldn't go nibbling apples because "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". Did Adam die that day, or the next, or the next week. No according to the very same story teller he lived to be 930 years old. Seems those apples are actually quite good for you!
2. Moving on a bit, Deuteronomy 23.3 states "An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever". Hmmm, the problem is that Ruth was a Moabite, yet she was an ancestor of David, and so also of Jesus - well sort of, you know what I mean, David was an ancestor of Joseph who absolutely wasn't Jesus's real biological father of course, even though he should have been to fulfill another prophecy. Confusing isn't i, I'm not surprised you can't spot the blindingly obvious failures of prophecy ;)
3. Barry me old mate, you were on the tour weren't you. Are you circumcised? Was that evil heretic David the cameraman circumcised. Do you think everyone was? How about everyone who has ever been to Jerusalem? I doubt it, don't you, yet Isiah palinly said "Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean". Did he make a mistake?
4. Now Zedekiah was fine old chap, and I'm sure that he believed every word, when (as we read in Jer 34.4-5) God told him "Yet hear the word of the Lord, O Zedekiah king of Judah; Thus saith the Lord of thee, Thou shalt not die by the sword: But thou shall die in peace". What a lucky chap old Zed was. Imagine then how disapointed he must have been to find that (as we find a few chapters later in the same book, 52:10-11, so yet again the same author can't even make the prophecies appear true) "the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekaih before his eyes: he slew also the princes of Judah in Riblah. Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him in chains, and carried him to Babylon, and put him in prison till the day of his death"
5. I'm bored with you now Barry, so I'll leave you with one last one, and see if you can see whats wrong with it... "And Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons, and a desolation for ever; there shall no man abide there, nor any son of man dwell in it" (Hint, I don't think anyone of the countless people who've lived there since has ever seen a dragon).
Geordie @ 10.16 on 14th Feb repeated Beth's assetion that the truth is the truth regardless of whether you beieve it or not, then repeated Barry's lie about prophecies. Nothing new to add to the debate Geordie?
Izzy @ 1.08 on 14th Feb claims the Bible has never been wrong. Wow, there's another bold claim - rubbish of course, but very bold. Igoring the failed prophecies, of which I mentioned a few to Barry, there are also literally hundreds of inconsistencies in there. If it makes two contradictory claims, how can it always be right? A few simple examples you might be able to explain for me:
1. How many horsemen did King David capture? Was it 1700 as claimed in 2 Samuel 8:4, or was it 7000 as claimed in 1 Chron 18:4?
2. The order that God cobbled the world together. I'm sure you've been challenged on this one before. Take a look at chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis. You'll see there are two versions of events for creation. Which is correct? Were humans created first (Gen 2:18-19) or animals (Gen 1:25-27)?
3. How long does God's anger last? Jeremiah wasn't sure. In 3:12 he says "for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever", but a bit later in 17.4 he contradicts that with "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall be forever". Hmmm, I can't decide, which is it?
4. Ignoring all that Armageddon rubbish for a minute, what about the earth itself (rather than us nasty sinners). Whats going to happen to that? In Ecclesiastes 1:4 we're told "the earth abideth forever", but in 2 Peter 3:10 its a different story - "the elements shall melt with a fervent heat, the earth also, and works that are therein shall be burned up". I'd be grateful if you could clear that one up for me so I can sort out my house insurance.
5. I'm nothing if not fair. I gave Bazzer five things to ponder, so one more you too. HadJacob got dodgy eyesight, or was he a liar when he said, according to Genesis 32:30 "I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved"; or was John the liar when he said (in 1:18) "No man hath seen God at any time"? Or, is there another possibility, could it possibly be that its a load of old baloney told round the campfires of ignorant goat herders a couple of millenia ago?
February 14th, 2008 - 1:08pmIzzy said...
If any country manages to conquer Israel then I'll immediately give up my faith, because it'll be the first time the Bible has ever been wrong. I felt the program was biased, but interesting. It brought back memories of when I went to Israel.
Christians look forward to the end because we're going to be with our saviour, but we aren't happy that so many people get left behind. Still, with programs like this out on the BBC, how is that gonna show people what Christians are really like?
February 14th, 2008 - 10:16amgeordie said...
What Christians believe isnt a myth - just because someone doesnt believe it doesnt make it wrong. Truth is truth wether we believe it or not. The truth is that hundreds of prophesies are recorded in the bible and hundreds have happened the remainder regard the end when Jesus comes back - wether you believe it or not doesnt matter if its true are you willing to take that chance and ridicule it instead of investigating if with an open mind - 1st time Jesus came to save next time he is coming to judge perfectly!!
February 14th, 2008 - 10:00amChris said...
Anyone doubting that various Christian extremists are a menace needs to do some research. Check out the despicable Pastor Haggard and his CUFI organisation; the rapture-ready morons who bought the Left Behind series in their 10s of millions; the secretive and immensely wealthy movement of Christian Reconstructionism.
The combination of snake-oil salesmen and Christian TV channels in the US has produced numerous aberrant strains of Christianity and this plague of ignorant superstition is now infecting the rest of the world.
February 14th, 2008 - 12:49amNick said...
Speak for yourself James. Anyway, I am sure anyone who wants to see Christians look like complete morons would tune into The God Channel.
February 14th, 2008 - 12:13amS.Hair said...
I am so angry at these so called christians.The ignorance was truely stunning.I hope they read this!
For starters, they are so wrong, fawning over the jews who didn't want jesus the first time and certainly do not want him a second, yet having a go at muslims who not only believe in him, he is their most loved prophet after mohamed.They too are waiting for his return and beside the grave of mohamed is an empty plot for him.
What did Jesus say "forgive them lord for they know not what they do"?
Then we have them gushing over the Israeli soldiers, that woman and her sarcastic "poor Palestinians" - someone should educate her, as we know Israel is a state for jews, Palestinian is not a religion!
The Palestinians are both muslim and christian TOGETHER.
Christians are every much a part of the resistance(yes resistance-what part of occupied are they not hearing)
George Habash, one of the most known who just died was christian.
Palestine is the place that has been wiped off the map(check modern maps) no, Iran Pres said ZIONISM will one day like nazism and communism, disappear from the pages of time.
Everyone's anger is NOT anti-semetic, it is political, for the ethnic cleansing that has and continues to be done, see internet daily to see how they have the Palestinians living and dying.
5 million refugees are still languishing in camps 40 and 60 years on, Why do they have to suffer?
They have no right of return and there in lies the crux of the conflict, no justice no peace.What a shame they chose to ignore their fellow christians sufferring behind those fences snd walls.
What a shame they did not go and see Bethlehem which is also imprisoned, and visit the christians there who live together with muslims, it is the Israelis that they both have to fear.
February 13th, 2008 - 6:01pmJames said...
It doesn't seem to me that the "Christians" want to keep us all in the dark....Just look at the feedback on this program. Why are we afraid of giving an open forum to the Christians. Then we can make up our own minds. Rather than letting the BBC do that for us. Do we want an open or closed mind?
February 13th, 2008 - 3:49pmAnthony said...
Beth, science,and not bizarre irrational "faiths" explains how light switches work, how planes fly etc.
February 13th, 2008 - 2:54pmMatt said...
Ah yes, the BBC. BBC stands for Badly Biased Communication. What a terrible misunderstanding of evangelical Christians. If you want the REAL story check out http://endoftheworldbustour.com/ When the group in the BBC documentary started to get the understanding that the "journalist" was looking for dirt and asking leading questions, they decided to but the domain name EndOfTheWorldBusTour.com to give their true perspective.
I wonder if the BBC ever gets dizzy from all their SPIN.
February 13th, 2008 - 12:45pmRobert said...
Thankyou BBC for such marvellously revealing programmes - I'm sure if any of these "Christans" had the power they would keep us all in darkness.
February 10th, 2008 - 12:53amBarry said...
James is absolutely right. This is a complete distortion of what this tour was about. The tourists do not believe that ‘the Apocalypse is due in a few years’. They did not go on this tour to take ‘a last look at the valley of Armageddon before it is awash with the blood of unbelievers’. They did not go to be baptised. How do I know? I was on the tour. The tour was led by Dr Chuck Missler (who was a Honour Graduate of the US Navel Academy, has a Master’s Degree in Engineering from UCLA, a PhD from LBU, supplemental graduate studies in Applied maths, Advanced Statistics & Information Sciences. He has served on over a dozen Boards of Directors of top US companies, and as Chairman & Chief Executive of six of them). Dr Missler is now one of the world’s leading Bible Teachers – in the documentary, he gets just ONE line out of hundreds of hours of footage shot by the BBC! The Bible has a 100% track record on Prophecy. These are not ambiguous comments, but specific details recorded thousands of years in advance. Anyone with a brain and newspaper wouldn’t be surprised if the Middle-East is the venue for WW3. But for the Bible to ‘guess’ that 2500 years ago, and that the land of Israel would be partitioned, and be a major cause of concern for the governments… The ‘morons’ are the ones burying their heads in the sand and ignoring the blatantly obvious.
February 10th, 2008 - 12:29amSimeon Forder said...
Anyway, with a quick look at a dictionary you'll read that a documentary is "using pictures or interviews with people involved in real events to provide a factual record or report ".
Somehow, I doubt that we'll see that here. If it is factually based then I'm pretty sure we'll see a group of well-adjusted people who in no-way are "celebrating impending armageddon". Let's see whether the Beeb produce fact or fiction...
February 10th, 2008 - 12:28amJames said...
Regardless of what we all might think. In the same wasy the psychology cannot be fully understood in 40 or so minutes. The same could be said of various religions. Surely we are not afraid of what the "Christians" might say?
February 9th, 2008 - 12:26amBeth said...
Every person on this entire earth has faith. For example: have you flown in a plane?(you have to have faith that it will take off, you have to have faith that the pilot actually can fly) Have you ever turned on a light?(you had to have faith it would turn on) Have you sat in a chair? (you had to have faith that it would not break underneath you and that it would actually hold you)
Creation demands a Creator and Design demands a Designer; whether you deny it or not, truth remains truth. We were created by a Divine Creator. You will never be satisfied until you have faith and believe in the only true God and believe in Jesus Christ, the ONE and ONLY Way to God and Heaven. Jesus Christ is the only One that will fill your heart and satisfy you!
James, you could be a prophet! Wouldn't you just love to talk to the people who were on the tour first and see what they were told the documentary was to be about? Oh, wait, I WAS on that tour. We've seen the show already just last Monday. Was the spin a surprise? Not really. Sad to say that they (BBC) did just exactly what they said they would not do ... add their own spin. Check out the web site for the real story after you've seen the show. www.endoftheworldbustour.com
February 8th, 2008 - 1:53pmLouis Cipher said...
Why does every "faith", be it cult, mainstream, fundamentalist or any other form of mysticism insist the media is biased against them? I appreciate that by declaring a belief in a supernatural invisible deity you have rejected rationalism, but there's a big difference between martyrdom and simple paranoia.
February 8th, 2008 - 9:25amJames said...
You cannot tell me that the BBC is not biased against Christians. I'm saying from the standpoint of good journalism, if we want an expert opinion on evolution, we ask top evolutionists, music we ask top muscicians, Islam, we ask top immams, only with Christians do they ask the "damaged" and "deranged". Surely this is going to be like watching a football match which, you already know who wins.
February 7th, 2008 - 9:35pmdiane said...
No they are simply following something that is going on that others would find interesting.Not making Christians look stupid. I feel they can do that themselves
February 7th, 2008 - 8:30pmAlien said...
I think it's unfair to blame the BBC for making Christians look like morons; Christians have been doing an excellent job of that for as long as they've existed.
Rather than simply admit they don't know the answers to everything, they insist on putting faith in a rediculous myth.
February 7th, 2008 - 7:06pmLouis Cipher said...
It looks like fascinating TV to me. What gets such obviously damaged individuals to the stage where they are openly celebrating impending armageddon?
February 6th, 2008 - 11:26amJames said...
Here we go again, imagine that the BBC making Christians look like complete morons. Surely people are getting sick of the same old spin. That's not good tv, nor is it interesting. I bet that it ends with a contrived political spin at the end. Even though the rest of the series has been rather interesting.
Thank you once again to the Biased Broadcasting Corporation.
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